Building faster racers

topic posted Mon, May 16, 2005 - 8:30 PM by  Steven
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We have done a bit of exsperimenting with different designs for power tool racing. So far we have tried building using angle grinder motors. We have tried changing gear ratios from say 2 to 1 reduction all the way to 5 to 1 reduction. We have tried front wheel drive, rear wheel drive and four wheel drive. We have tried several different types of tires and wheels.

With all of this testing we have only been able to change the E.T. times maybe 1/4 second one way or the other.

I'm kinda running out of ideas for major speed improvements at this point at least in the (Modified class). There must be a speed secrete out there somewheres we have over looked.

So whats a good thing to try next Boys and Girls?
posted by:
Steven
Sacramento
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  • Re: Building faster racers

    Mon, May 16, 2005 - 9:08 PM
    I think I found your answer right here, my friend.

    www.sethwhite.org/images/su...bottle.jpg
    • Re: Building faster racers

      Mon, May 16, 2005 - 10:02 PM
      Ya I started a discussion on the Robot Fighting League forum on building a Hybride Rocket engine just for fun.
      *************************************************
      Boy ya know as soon as a simple rocket motor design becomes known to the masses. Some fun loving folks find interesting ways to apply it to a bicycle just to see what happens.

      Well Kiddies heres a nice application of a hybrid rocket motor similar to the one used on Spaceship one. Basically it's built from a Steel pipe linned with roofing ashphalt. A valve is attached to one end of the pipe and a bottle of nitrous oxide is attached to the valve.

      Ignition is provide by a small chunk of a Estes rocket motor or a Safe and Sane sparkler. Thats about where the Safe and Sane part ends. Jeese I kinda want one of these. ;)

      bikerodnkustom3.homestead.com/dan...html

      The Propane powered Pulsejet bike is pretty cool too
      bikerodnkustom3.homestead.com/jet...html

      *************************************************
      This fellow Tim Pickens has built a lot of motors. For some reason I think I would like meeting him. Anyways heres a page with the internal drawings of the Hybrid motors and about 8 pictures down is the external motor case. It's pretty high tech stuff from your local Lowes or Home Depot hardware store.

      realrocketman.tripod.com/rocket.htm

      Hmm... Now if I could just get me a 2 Ft long 2 inch diameter schedule 80 pipe nipple and (1) 2 inch pipe cap, (1) 2 inch to 1 inch reducer and (1) 1 inch 6 inch long pipe nipple and a 25 lb chunk of roofing tar.

      It looks like you could just hang a piece of 1/4 inch or 1/2 inch Steel rod in the center of the empty pipe and heat up the tar on a Coleman stove in a aluminum cooking pot and and just pour the liquid tar in the motor case and then pull out the rod after the tar had cooled a bit. And there ya go one loaded hybrid rocket motor. Now of course there are some picture on this page of a slighly better design with the bell shapes added to the output end of the motor case. These will enhance the motors performance.

      I still havent figured out if there is a jetting orifice for the Nitrous oxide or if they are just dumping it into the motor with what looks like a 3/16 to 1/4 inch fitting and a simple valve.

      Also on another interesting note Tim mentions on one page the use of a Salami being used as Fuel. Apparently the Fat in the Salami is being used a the Fuel. I love that one He He.

      Some more Links.....

      realrocketman.tripod.com/uncletim.htm

      realrocketman.tripod.com/menu.htm

      A little Rocket Math for the Math guys.
      members.aol.com/cv192/engine.html

      A audio interview with Tim Pickens. He wants us all to build rockets.
      I like his way of thinking. Garage Builders Rule!
      www.thespaceshow.com/detail.asp

      www.harcspace.com/photos.php

      home.hiwaay.net/~hal5/

      www.hobbyspace.com/AAdmin/a...3-09.html

      The bike Racing folks have some ideas about Rocket bikes and flywheel lanched bikes also.
      bikerodnkustom2.homestead.com/IBRKA.html

      Serious Rocket Racers from around the world....
      meditech.ch/ete.dragracing/gb/index.html

      So what happens to the Salami when it is used as a rocket fuel? Does it change it's chemical propertys enough to become a Hot Dog?

      ***************************************************

      So then I got to looking for an ignition source, Having built and launched many model rockets when I was a kid. I knew you could buy igniters for the solid fuel motors. I even made a few of my own a couple of times.

      But of course I wanted to see how the Big (N) series motors are fired. I found this cool page on building igniters with Ni-Chrome wire some gunpowder and nitrocellulose lacquer. Apparently you can add a little Magnesium or Aluminum powder to give them a little more kick.

      www.sparksrocketry.com/igniters.htm

      Boy I wish I had some of theses back in my home made Cannon days. I used to just roll up some smokless powder in a cigarette rolling paper and stick it in the touch hole of the cannon. Then we would light it and run behind a concrete building and listen for the BIG bang.

      Hmm... I wonder what happens when you add Nitrous Oxide to a Magnesium or Aluminum fire.

      One day I was cutting some bolts off of some Surplus Aluminum plate and I tried cutting these strange looking bolts. Apparently some of the bolts were made from Magnesium. I noticed that they wouldn't turn Red when I heated them.

      But Boy they sure lit up the garage when I hit them with the oxygen from the torch. I was sorta sad when I vaporized the last one. They were fun to watch. They made a pretty (brilliant blue white flash) and lots of sparks.

      Disclaimer: Playing with fire is dangerous, be very careful.

      **************************************************

      found this page when searching for more Data about hybrid rocket engines.
      These guys have a lot of neat stuff for sale on their pages. And yes Boys and Girls some of it can be used in Robotic Combat. They even sell Exstreamly High pressure Pneumatic Valves. Not to mention that they even have kits for rocket engines and stuff

      www.aeroconsystems.com/





  • bob
    bob
    offline 5

    Re: Building faster racers

    Tue, May 17, 2005 - 12:27 AM
    we have been thinking about integrating pneumatic tools into the mix, given the slightly higher torque ratios, perhaps with a little extra burst of air of the start.. the second item we have been discussing is that old devil friction, and how to minimize it yet maintain stability, whilst preventing flight.
    • Re: Building faster racers

      Tue, May 17, 2005 - 2:48 AM
      I went for maximum p/w ratio, while trying to keep it as foolish yet simple as possible.

      I got 4 10amp motors out of leafblowers, put them all in an old small tailgate style bbq pit, and have each motor independently drive a 4 inch wheel.

      Havent really tested yet, but by the book at 110v that will produce about 6-8 HP, and the weight machine's weight is practically all motors. Will be fun to see how it does!
      • Re: Building faster racers

        Tue, May 17, 2005 - 9:35 AM
        We found (with the help of slow-mo on TV) that our biggest enemy (besides Greg's power mod ;) was getting our power to stick from the start. We had a ton of torque, but our saw bounced for the first few feet. We're working on ways to make it stick better - we shall see what happens.
        • Re: Building faster racers

          Tue, May 17, 2005 - 7:33 PM
          Getting traction and preventing bouncing is a difficult problem.
          In testing we have tried different gear ratios. Now in theory using a lower gear ratio say 4 to 1 instead of a 2 to 1 ratio should give double the starting torque when the motor is first powered up. And yes it does give you more launching power.

          But it also caused the wheels to spin and lose traction more often and for a longer distance down the track. Great now I have more power than the tires can handle and I've lowered my top speed.

          OK now I'll just move some weight by building a longer frame to move more weight towards the rear of the racer. OK that helped a little but now the front of the frame is getting light at 25 feet and It begins bouncing and then so do the rear drive tires. Arrgh! Whats next kids? Adjustable gravity?
          • Re: Building faster racers

            Wed, May 18, 2005 - 6:00 AM

            steve, you are thinking about this way way way too much. . .

            how many of these racers have you built since i saw you last?

            you are now making me feel guilty for not having the event in june.

            j



            • Re: Building faster racers

              Wed, May 18, 2005 - 10:07 AM
              Jim - coming from a racing family, I can tell you to just let it go. My brother has been designing a bunch of machines ever since hearing about the last race. My dad and I keep talking about ideas and are testing mods to Roadrash this week.

              It's a genetic thing. Nothing you do or don't will ever fix us. :)
            • Re: Building faster racers

              Wed, May 18, 2005 - 8:14 PM
              Um... Well, some folks have told me that I have a problem with Power Tool Drag Racing. Well I believe they are totally wrong.

              I've only built six more frames in the last 6 months well not including the Ride-on Racer. I've only built 80 feet of test track with one set of clocks and a speed trap. I've only rewired the garages power system to include a 50 amp 240 VAC feed with 6 gadge wire to the launching control panel. I've only had to replace the test track surface once due to wear. I've only dammaged one Pickup truck when a racer jumped out of the track and ate the trucks fender. I've only totally destroyed one racer on it's first and only run when it hit the stopping box at high speed. (It was a good hit though He He..)

              I don't Have a problem with Power Tool Drag racing.

              I can quit at any time!!!!.........

              I do have a problem with running out of MIG wire and Gas for the Welder though...... ;)

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